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PostPosted: Aug 5, 2014 11:46 pm
by bennettbike
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Re: Ellisons- A U-Turn, 2 university students would have liv

PostPosted: Aug 6, 2014 7:40 am
by graveleye
who knows man. Maybe you could have prevented their deaths and maybe not. Too many variables and what-ifs to pin it all on one decision to turn around, or a guide giving them directions to the cave. The kids who died were making decisions too. Poor decisions, unfortunately.

Re: Ellisons- A U-Turn, 2 university students would have liv

PostPosted: Aug 7, 2014 8:03 am
by KENTO
Don't waste time on the guilty what ifs? These kids were very bent on trying caving without first seeking out Cavers to help them adapt their limited climbing experience. They were not honest in their approach to the people who gave them directions either, else they might have telegraphed their lack of experience and been given a lecture they might have processed, thereby living to grow a little wiser. I fear they were showing off to their girlfriends along for the ride, sad to say.
It is always difficult to assess what another group may or may not have in those rucksacks everyone is carrying on their back when crossing paths out in the wilderness. Tenfoot tall & Bulletproof young men don't make it back from alot of outings, no matter the clues along the way telling them they ought to pull a U-turn also
My friend Anmar, Shibumi here on Cave Chat was nearby for a regional NCRC meeting and they were called out to retrieve the bodies. There may be an account of this elsewhere, still archived.

Re: Ellisons- A U-Turn, 2 university students would have liv

PostPosted: Aug 8, 2014 9:20 pm
by BrianFrank
Bennettbike, appreciate your candor. Another thought hit me, you could have been caught up in the tragedy yourself. If you showed up right after they were tangled up in the cold water you guys may have taken serious risks to save them and it could have been a 3 or 4 person accident. God may have directed you somewhere else on purpose. I also hope you do not worry about the what ifs.

Re: Ellisons- A U-Turn, 2 university students would have liv

PostPosted: Aug 11, 2014 9:46 pm
by DawgsgoCaving
Their souls are at peace. You can pray for their families if you are struggling to find closure. I remember you telling me this story the first time I went caving with you. Just learn to let it go. One day at a time, buddy.

Re: Ellisons- A U-Turn, 2 university students would have liv

PostPosted: Aug 16, 2014 11:20 pm
by bennettbike
Good point BrianFrank, good point. I was more like... wow i met the friend of a guide that gave the directions to where i was headed but didnt. Just odd sruff.

Re: Ellisons- A U-Turn, 2 university students would have liv

PostPosted: Aug 16, 2014 11:22 pm
by bennettbike
Josh, when I was telling you about this is why I made the post. You all missed the point, its ironic.