Cutting a cave into Gasconade Dolomite man cave. BAD IDEA?

[DollyMight]

I just bought a piece of property on Lake of the Ozarks and, sadly, it has no caves.

:(
I would like to change that. Aside from the obvious facts that "mining is hard, dangerous work that can kill you...", is there some reason I cannot, or should not grab a two pound hammer and some hand chisels and begin carving into the hillside, since I am the land-owner and all? What legal/environmental/ethical implications should I consider?

The land is located in the north east quadrant of the Gravois Arm of the Lake of the Ozarks. The geology is mainly Gasconade Dolomite, from the Ordovician era, capped with one small patch of the sandstone Robidoux formation at the tip top of the hill. The Dolomite is a sedimentary rock that cuts fairly easily with a mallet and a chisel...the hillside offers sheer faces of dolomite where a cave up-high would be ideal.

Should I go for it and have the envy of all man-caves, or...? I figured that you guys would know all the subtle nuances I have yet to think of...your two cents are welcomed and appreciated!

This is my first post, so please be gentle...

Many thanks in advance!

DollyMight

[tncaver]

DollyMight, have you thoroughly searched your property and looked for sinkholes? If you mine yourself a cave in solid rock, what you will have is a mine. I'm not so sure you understand the huge undertaking that you are proposing. Mining even a short tunnel could take years. If you have no sinkholes to start a dig, I seriously suggest that you ask locals or go to your local caving club (grotto which you can look up on the NSS home page) and ask around to know where some existing caves are in your area.

[DollyMight]

DollyMight, have you thoroughly searched your property and looked for sinkholes?

Yes. alas, she is simply a hillside...

If you mine yourself a cave in solid rock, what you will have is a mine

...a mine? yes. You have it exactly.

Mining even a short tunnel could take years

...yes and could lead to bony fingers. This fact is not lost on me.

If you have no sinkholes to start a dig, I seriously suggest that you ask locals or go to your local caving club (grotto which you can look up on the NSS home page) and ask around to know where some existing caves are in your area.

...yeah, and herein lies my problem. Did I forget to mention that I am blind? Yeah... Not that clubs and grottos arent filled with swell guys im sure, but honestly, i doubt any of them would want me tagging along, and im pretty sure it would present a danger to other cavers, to say nothing of myself or the cave ( i know in some caves it is considered bad form to even touch the walls...I am imagining me leaving no surface untouched wanting to "see" everything and pissing everyone off for generations).

not that mining is so much safer, mind you, but at least im not destroying something naturally beautiful and the only person (or hole in the ground) I am suggesting putting in harms way is me, and not also a grotto of kind strangers who want to help out.

If it takes me ten years to get ten feet, im not going anywhere. I dont need to get to China or recreate Carlsbad in my backyard to be happy....

I realize that logistically, from a safety standpoint, and in terms of being "long term" easy, the idea of the blind digging a mine is a nightmare....but my question is more about the morality / legality. I do not wish to stand against law and or propriety.

So, not so much "could I" or "would I", but rather more like, "Should I"?

Thanks for your reply!

[Caving Guru]

DollyMight, this documentary about a cave digger who digs his own caves may interest you and give you ideas.

http://cavediggerdocumentary.com (you can only see the trailer with this link)

[DollyMight]

Yes. This...

http://cavediggerdocumentary.com is spot on.

This guy has the right idea. For me, it is about relearning to use my hands without the aid of my eyes. I was once an electrical engineer in a former life, but today the wires I encounter all "look and feel" the same. I cannot discriminate between a diode and a resistor any more...I just end up burning things (like myself) when I try to solder...but give me two different samples of rocks and everything changes. Granite is different than limestone is different from from obsidian is different than marble, and I can tell the difference almost by sense of smell and sound, now. each stone, each and every one, is different. tastes different. smells different. feels different.

I hesitate to go "caving" proper because a blind man in a cave is an accident waiting to happen and I am going to want to touch, and feel everything I cannot see... and I am just not ready or willing to be anybody elses responsibility. Not if I can help it.

My own cave/mine/georifice would be preferable, especially if I could design it. Ill be here forever...im not going anywhere...gotta do something to keep busy...so if it takes forever, thats fine. Ill have bony fingers.

But I take it there is no "cavers code of conduct" that prohibits such activity then? No grandfather law from 1845 that prohibits tunneling or boring into ones own hillside because of cattle rustling or some environmental preservation concerns or other legal pitfalls I can expect? I mean, other than the obvious it is damn hard work that might take forever and end up killing me... No dirt shrews are going to die, or conservation groups are going to demand a pound of flesh for disturbing the delicate balance of natures ecosystem? There is not some law against private mines/caves or some moral objection against such activity? I just want to make sure that nobody is going to get their knickers in a twist because I didn't call 1800-DIG-CAVE first to check like I should have, or something like that.

I figure you guys must dig caves a lot...so I thought i would check with you first.

[tncaver]

Digging rock can be dangerous even for sighted people. If you are using nothing more than hand tools on your own property, I doubt it is illegal. I know using machines usually requires a permit. Ironically, I read an article about some people who built a pond on their property and had all the county permits and later the EPA told them to drain the pond or they would be fined an outrageous amount of money each day they refused. They decided to fight it in court. Government can be a huge pain in the butt. If you have any fears of breaking the law, why not contact your county codes department and ask if you need a permit. But frankly, if no one
knows you are digging on your own property, why tell them. Just be sure your nearest relative knows where you are, in case you don't come home one afternoon.

[trogman]

Seems like I read an article in the NSS News a few years ago about blind cavers. Somehow they found their way around without excessive touching of formations and such. Caving is a sport that impacts all your senses in so many ways-not just visually. The feel of squishy mud and smooth rock. The sound of water dripping from the ceiling. The feel of the cool air rushing through a passage and out of an opening in a hillside (I especially love that one!) The smell of the musty cave air. So the idea of a blind person going caving is not really that foreign or strange. You should at least check with your local grotto and see if they'd allow you to join them on a cave trip. You might be pleasantly surprised.

As far as digging, I am of the same mind as the other posters-if there are no surface indications such as sinkholes, etc., then your chances of actually breaking into any kind of natural cavity are probably slim to none.

Good luck with your quest!

Trogman

[DollyMight]

Digging rock can be dangerous even for sighted people

...and how! Be safe out there regardless of your chosen activity! I heard a rumor once that spelunking might be considered dangerous in some circles, yet here we are... Risk to ones life and safety from the environment is a personal choice, and we make it at every traffic intersection we cross. Crossing the street is also inherently dangerous to sighted and non-sighted people alike. A good friend of mine got killed while trying to cross the street one fine day, and yet I still venture to cross the street, even today.

It is a calculated risk, and we all have to do our own math. I is good advice to always double check your figures when calculating risk-assessment with mental math, if self preservation is an instinct you posses. I am at peace with it.

If you have any fears of breaking the law, why not contact your county codes department and ask if you need a permit.

Morgan County is unincorporated. There simply are no codes and no one to call. I could build a home out of big-mac boxes and cigarette butts with bailing wire feeding the electrical and McDonald's straws taped together for plumbing and then cover the outside in stucco and call it a house; the electric company would happily hook it to the grid...the water company would tell me I need an adapter to convert their 1 inch pipe to the 5/16ths straw diameter and it might leak because of poor craftsmanship then turn it off at the street--but I would have water at the street! Pretty sure all one needs a permit for around here is for fishing, which they sell at the bait-n-tackle where I am pretty sure you can also pay your fine for not having a fishing license should you happen to get ticketed. Im not worried about the county...and honestly I was more worried I might destroy some precious protected bedrock or disrupt some dirt shrew that someone loves or something. Maybe violate some unwritten modern code of caving like "Thou shall not dig", or something.

I honestly dont know. Im still new to this.




....so, no dirt shrew needs protecting or "The Dolomite and Bedrock Preservation Act of 1822" to consider? besides being crushed to death in a horrific cave-in, sure, but to be clear...there is no commandment of caving that forbids me to dig, cut, or chisel or some animal or law that average cavers can think of?


Many thanks!

[DollyMight]

Somehow they found their way around without excessive touching of formations and such

...yes, but I want to touch! Taking me to a cave I cannot touch and feel is like taking me in a china shop and telling me the bathroom is in the back! Incessantly worrying I am going to break the delicate things all around me that I cannot see is torture to me. I would rather eat my own socks.

Caving is a sport that impacts all your senses in so many ways-not just visually

I am looking forward to honing my echolocation skills for this very reason... and im not saying there are not or cannot be visually impaired cavers... I am sure there are. Im just saying that, for me, the view from "beneath the wing of another" leaves me feeling cramped and self-conscious. I do not do well being a "ward", and I much prefer independence and solidarity over being a liability...call it a personal preference. Maybe i am just not a people person...I dont know. But just the thought of going "caving" with a group of "swell people" sounds absolutely terrifying.

You should at least check with your local grotto and see if they'd allow you to join them on a cave trip. You might be pleasantly surprised.

nope. nope. nope! thank you, but no thank you.

As far as digging, I am of the same mind as the other posters-if there are no surface indications such as sinkholes, etc., then your chances of actually breaking into any kind of natural cavity are probably slim to none.

Fair enough. I am happy do dig, chisel, and pound for every inch. Im not looking for a free ride.

Good luck with your quest!

...and to you, Trogman. thanks for your input!