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DawgsgoCaving wrote:
Forgot to say you should follow up with them about this if you haven't already. Definitely an odd double-standard, for lack of a better word, going on there.
Elliott-Hellmann wrote: I sent quite a few photos with the report and that one was selected over others. The feedback I received was all positive and encouraging. Once again I will admit that I and the person responsible are relatively new cavers and still have a lot to learn. Not just with the skills to safely negotiate a cave, but with the general expectations and etiquette of the community.
It's pretty clear that someone "had it out" for the "perpetrator". Though possibly not with malicious intent. It doesn't take much investigating to see that the "perpetrator" is an educated and somewhat affluent individual and it's possible someone recognized this and saw it as a case of "he should have known better". I will testify that one of the "perpetrators" best qualities is that he is a good listener and is not imperious at all.
Lava wrote:Elliott-Hellmann wrote: I sent quite a few photos with the report and that one was selected over others. The feedback I received was all positive and encouraging. Once again I will admit that I and the person responsible are relatively new cavers and still have a lot to learn. Not just with the skills to safely negotiate a cave, but with the general expectations and etiquette of the community.
Kudos to you for openly communicating about this mistake. I'm glad to hear that the intent was not malicious.
It's pretty clear that someone "had it out" for the "perpetrator". Though possibly not with malicious intent. It doesn't take much investigating to see that the "perpetrator" is an educated and somewhat affluent individual and it's possible someone recognized this and saw it as a case of "he should have known better". I will testify that one of the "perpetrators" best qualities is that he is a good listener and is not imperious at all.
Typically someone who would take the time to learn vertical techniques advanced enough to get to the bottom of the cave would have also absorbed the caving ethic by that point as well, so it was not at all unreasonable to assume that the perpetrator had ignored the conservation creed and acted maliciously. I've seen the perpetrator's Facebook page, and my impression was not one of an educated or affluent person, but of a careless thrill seeker. Coupled with the vandalism, the shoe seemed to fit and the prudent course of action was to contact the authorities.
I do think that intent should be carefully looked at in these cases, as sometimes the individual just hasn't been exposed to the big conservation picture or simply didn't think things through and we are better served by educating rather than punishing. Although some egregious cases, like the other incidents Aaron mentioned in the article, don't deserve leniency.
Elliott-Hellmann wrote: The perpetrator is one of the most cautious cavers I have met.
Anonymous_Coward wrote:It is disconcerting to cavers that someone could make it through all the steps of learning to cave vertically on the level of Ellisons, without getting the same kind of education in conservation along the way. It concerns me that such a path to vertical caving even exists.
GroundquestMSA wrote:Anonymous_Coward wrote:It is disconcerting to cavers that someone could make it through all the steps of learning to cave vertically on the level of Ellisons, without getting the same kind of education in conservation along the way. It concerns me that such a path to vertical caving even exists.
This is an interesting comment. There are many ways to learn vertical ropework, and while they may not all be approved by the majority of cavers, I would guess that there are many ways to bottom Ellison's. I don't think there's any such thing as getting an unbiased education in conservation. Conservation is partly intuitive and partly societal. It obviously follows that there will be some people who can explore deep caves without sharing the "cavers" view of conservation. Viewing this fact in a strictly negative way would be selfish. Understand that I'm not excusing the actions that triggered this investigation, or criticizing anyone for being upset. I just hope that we can keep cool and consider the background and intentions of others, especially in areas when there are no universally accepted rules.
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