St. Louis and Illinois caves.... Help needed. Extream Novice

[Squirrel Girl]

I won't "flame" Noobie, but I, too, join the chorus that burning trash in a cave is a bad idea.

Recycling is a good idea. I came across this factoid, just the other day:

American consumers and industry throw away enough aluminium in a year to rebuild our entire aeroplane commercial fleet every three months."

[kvart]

I won't "flame" Noobie, but I, too, join the chorus that burning trash in a cave is a bad idea.

Recycling is a good idea. I came across this factoid, just the other day:

American consumers and industry throw away enough aluminium in a year to rebuild our entire aeroplane commercial fleet every three months."

I think now would be a good time to refresh everyone's memory about how sucessful "your" recycling efforts were at the NSS Convention at Huntsville last year.......




Bellinglham can also consider this as a challenge to match or better last years efforts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Squirrel Girl]

Yeah to Martha and Glenn! I was there while they were loading the bags of cans (as seen in the photo). Yeah for helping out!

[Noobiecavin]

Dont burn plastics.... burn glass. Posting pics in photo section. And burning glass bottles is not the same as burning plastics. I would like to do the ozark cave clean. Can i get date list so i can Request off of work?
As far as starting a fire.... We start a fire to 1 sit by.... 2 burn collected trash from within the cave. Yes I do understand that taking the trash out of the cave would be Better But once again I am a noobie. If you look at my photo's in the photo section you see the waterfall the enterence on the left is where we burn our bottles and others that we find.

How do you guys remove spray paint from a cave? Just wondering cause run of the mill paint remover would leave more noxious fumes then 30 year old spraypaint.

[wendy]

Dont burn plastics.... burn glass. Posting pics in photo section. And burning glass bottles is not the same as burning plastics. I would like to do the ozark cave clean. Can i get date list so i can Request off of work?
As far as starting a fire.... We start a fire to 1 sit by.... 2 burn collected trash from within the cave. Yes I do understand that taking the trash out of the cave would be Better But once again I am a noobie. If you look at my photo's in the photo section you see the waterfall the enterence on the left is where we burn our bottles and others that we find.

How do you guys remove spray paint from a cave? Just wondering cause run of the mill paint remover would leave more noxious fumes then 30 year old spraypaint.

There are different methods of removing spray paint, but first the cave needs to be checked for historical graffitti that the spray paint may be covering. Others on here can help you with that.

And yes you are a noobie, and I can overlook the fires that you did in the past cuz you did not know better, but now you do. NO FIRES IN A CAVE FROM NOW ON!!!

Welcome to the group and maybe will see you at a caving event in the future.

[Squirrel Girl]

First before anything else, I want to welcome you, Noobie, to the NSS.

We're dyed in the wool conservationists (though of varying degrees). But I'm very happy that inspite of your feeling flamed that you stuck around. Indeed some of our fold were hard on you.

I don't understand burning glass at all. Isn't it's melting temperature higher than a trash fire?

As I mentioned before, I'm not keen on fires in caves.

But despite your difference in background, I hope you find some fun cavers to go with in the St. Louie area. Try and keep an open mind about learning new ways in terms of conservation. I hope, very much, that some cavers will find your enthusiasm enticing and you will learn about caving and everyone has a good time.

As far as removing spray paint, I haven't done it myself, but lots of others have. It's tricky to not use too harsh of chemicals which damage the cave life (you might not see it, but there IS life in caves), yet succeeds at removing the paint. Hopefully someone with real experience will chime in. I'm sure details are written up somewhere. Maybe in a past conservation issue of the NSS News.

Welcome,
SG

[Noobiecavin]

Yup yup, Im on the internet at work ALLLL DAY, So I wont be going anywhere. And yea I do Look Forward to Getting to go underground. I grew up to be a good convervationist above ground Ie Catch and release, PUT OUT YOUR FIRES.... If you shoot it you follow it til you find it. But as im learning above ground and below have different laws of the land.

[Noobiecavin]

Another thing check out my pictures from the alton caves.... Can you blame me for wanting to find more caves? I have others if anyone is interested.

[Squirrel Girl]

Another thing check out my pictures from the alton caves.... Can you blame me for wanting to find more caves? I have others if anyone is interested.

Nope, I don't think anyone would blame you for wanting to find more caves! We KNOW the feeling!

But as you hang around cavers, you will find out that most of them guard their locations carefully. Many caves have been damaged by vandals with spray paint. Others have had the formations stolen. Sometimes just by having cavers go through, the caves are damaged. So we try and not let the world know where the caves are so they won't be damaged.

For instance, I might trust you to take you there, but you might tell your brother, who then tells his co-worker, and then the high schoolers have a party and the cave is wrecked.

Certainly there is debate about how much secrecy is good. You're welcome to join in the discussion. But whether it's ultimately the best way to protect our caves or not, I'm letting you know that you will find it such that cavers don't freely give out cave locations. It's just the way it is.

Others have mentioned in this thread that the best way to find out more (and see more caves) is to find a Grotto, get involved with the people. Show them how you're a decent person. DON'T defend burning trash to them--don't mention it at all unless they've read this thread. Try and be open to the understanding that their point isn't to berate you, but rather, to protect caves. As you've seen, some folks get riled up over conservation. Someday you may recall back on your days, and kindly inform a newer noobie about taking care the caves.

And despite all the "rules," caving is FUN!

[Noobiecavin]

Oh yea I understand that you guys are basically gettin me more informed So I dont sound like such a tool at a meeting. And Yes secrecy is a good thing when it comes to anything presious.

When I go to the local meeting I will just wear a shirt that says "noob"

[Cheryl Jones]

Remember, everyone at the grotto meeting, like every other caver, was once a beginner. (Although sometimes some experienced cavers appear to forget this...)

Cheryl

[cob]

3rd Wednesday, cob....not 3rd Thursday....

shows you how often I make the meetings these days!!!

[CKB69]

Oh yea I understand that you guys are basically gettin me more informed So I dont sound like such a tool at a meeting. And Yes secrecy is a good thing when it comes to anything presious.

When I go to the local meeting I will just wear a shirt that says "noob"

So far,you are not a "tool". Just a newcomer in need of wisdom,which to your credit,you seem to be absorbing.

I was a newbie once,as we all were.
Skip the t-shirt,they will know anyway.

Trashed caves SUCK! Bite the bullet and pack that mess out. The more trash in the cave = more trash to be packed out later.
Trash and graffitti breed more trash and graffitti.

If you want a pristine cave to visit,you have to be prepared to pay the price. Most times that means that YOU have to BE THE MIRACLE.
Find a new one(and guard it closely!),or,find a trashed "tourist cave" and guard it even more closely.

As a neophyte,you probably don't have the knowledge to find that new pristine cave system. Even those with long years of knowledge and experience find them all to rarely(small wonder they are usually kept secret..).
So start with what you know,and,the rest will come in due course.

Welcome to the "'underground".

[Noobiecavin]

My father owns land in Waynesville Witch sits on about 700 acres of wooded, ultra pleasent streams and creaks. SOOOOO I think Im goin to pack up the 4 wheeler and drive in 300 or so acres in, park it and Start my journey. Dont be worried He has GPS For this sort of thing.

And thank you for the compliment and the Welcome. <~~ thats funny

[bigalpha]

Well, don't go by yourself noobie.....bad things happen when you go by yourself.