Cave gate protocol

[graveleye]

Just curious... what do you guys do when you enter a gated cave? Do you lock yourself in? Hide the lock and pull the door closed or latched? leave it open?

I ask because I am leery of locking myself in a cave... what if the lock decides to jam, or if someone tampers with it while you are in there. I understand the worry of having some kids or locals following you in, but is that really a risk? Has a local ever followed you in the cave? Also, padlocks can be, understandably, a little testy in the cave environment.

I lock myself in the Kingston Cave, but it is only a fence, and should I find myself unable to unlock the padlock, I can always climb over or under the fence... pain in the butt, but doable. Being stuck behind a heavy angle iron gate would be a different story.

Thoughts or experiences?

[jharman2]

Thoughts or experiences?

In 2003 a group of friends and I went caving in a well known cave in West Virginia. We had obtained the combination from the landowner (a family friend) and went caving. We locked ourselves in the cave per our understanding of the management plan. The rationale for locking ourselves in was to keep other folks from ending up inadvertently being locked in. We caved for ~6 hours and upon return to the entrance could not get the combo lock to work. We had the combination written on a piece of paper and tried to unlock the lock for several hours before coming to the conclusion that the lock was broken. We ended up staying put at the entrance for another ~6 hours until our call-out (my father) came looking for us. He retrieved bolt cutters from the landowner and we cut the lock.

After this experience I'm pretty leery of locking gates behind me. If it MUST be done I suggest keeping some kind of cutting device capable of removing the lock inside the cave. That being said, many cave gates are designed so the lock is very hard to access. In that case I wouldn't lock it.

[Squirrel Girl]

And as a cave diver, I'm REALLY leery of locking myself in.

A couple months ago, I followed a caver into a DRY cave (hard to believe). Some people were walking nearby the entrance and I decided we should move the lock farther down into the cave and hide it so that curious folks wouldn't lock us in.

[Scott McCrea]

My number one rule of caving (and lots of regular life situations) is to always have an exit strategy.

If a cave is gated, there is probably a management plan. Therefore, the wishes of the manager should be followed. If it says lock the gate, you lock the gate. If given the option, I probably would not lock it. We usually take the lock and hide it away from the entrance.

If locking is required, I would probably do something like John did and have a reliable call out person.

I have seen a bunch of cave gate locks fail, broken key, rust, etc. Luckily we were on the outside looking in.

Also, years ago, I did a thru-trip at Xanadu. Both entrances are gated. I was fairly new to caving and had no experience with gates or thru-trips. We did the long, strenuous trip. Got lost. Finally found the gate and the trip leader confessed he forgot the key. I was really dreading that trip back thru the cave as I hid his body. But seriously, then he walked over to the gate and gave it a yank. It wasn't locked. Whew!

[graveleye]

I was really dreading that trip back thru the cave as I hid his body.

Good one, and I don't think anyone would blame you.

We had a little trouble getting a gritty lock opened this weekend and that is what got me to thinking. Most of the caves I go in are not gated, so it's not been much of a worry. I'm thinking to not lock, or perhaps fashion some sort of dummy lock that just looks locked so the curious or devious won't screw with it.

[firemedic1015]

One cave I visit regularly has a heavy steel door with a commercial lock installed on it. It requires a key to open from the outside but only a turn of the handle to exit. We leave it locked from the outside while we are in the cave.

[tncaver]

Scott McCrea stated: "Also, years ago, I did a thru-trip at Xanadu. Both entrances are gated. I was fairly new to caving and had no experience with gates or thru-trips. We did the long, strenuous trip. Got lost. Finally found the gate and the trip leader confessed he forgot the key. I was really dreading that trip back thru the cave as I hid his body. But seriously, then he walked over to the gate and gave it a yank. It wasn't locked. Whew!"

Scott's statement is ironic because the upper Xanadu gate is constructed so that it can be unlocked from the inside without a key, by a special process that is not easy to figure out unless a person has already seen how it works. It is a safety feature that prevents anyone from being locked inside the cave (provided they know the secret to the gate). Likewise, the gate on Blue Spring Cave (both in TN) also features a way to open the gate from the inside even with it locked. If all gates were constructed with those kinds of safety features, no one would ever get locked inside the caves.

[stx2006]

Most caves I go to have two to three locks on the chain in case one isn't working you have one or two more to try. I always lock myself in. Don't want anyone getting in and then messing the cave up or something.

[Extremeophile]

Scott's statement is ironic because the upper Xanadu gate is constructed so that it can be unlocked from the inside without a key, by a special process that is not easy to figure out unless a person has already seen how it works. It is a safety feature that prevents anyone from being locked inside the cave (provided they know the secret to the gate). Likewise, the gate on Blue Spring Cave (both in TN) also features a way to open the gate from the inside even with it locked. If all gates were constructed with those kinds of safety features, no one would ever get locked inside the caves.

It's been many years since I visited Xanadu, but that's what I remembered ... coming out the Alph entrance (lower?), that it could be opened without a key from the inside.

When I lived back east it seemed that every gated cave I visited had this failsafe measure - gate could be opened from inside without a key. Almost every gated cave I visit here in the west does not have this feature, and almost all have policies that require that the gate be locked behind you. Although this puts you at greater risk, it seems necessary to prevent others from wandering in while you're off exploring, and then inadvertently locking them inside. Many of these gated caves are equipped with bolt cutters or hacksaw in case of emergencies, but I know there have been some discussions about whether the emergency equipment is really up to the job. I think there are too many risks in leaving gates unlocked, assuming you plan to lock it when you leave, so I guess my priority would be:
1. Design gates with a keyless exit option
2. Equip caves with emergency gate opening options that have been tested and proven to work. Protect them from the elements and inspect periodically.
3. Have a rock-solid surface watch

[tncaver]

Bolt cutters and hacksaws left inside a cave, could possibly rust to the extent that they would not function properly, which brings us back to gates designed with a
fail safe method that can open without a key. The three lock option may fail for the very same reason that bolt cutters and hacksaws might fail, IE: RUST. Three locks could rust and malfunction just as easily as one lock if the lock is not stainless steel. Freezing can be another problem. If freezing is not a problem then perhaps stainless steel locks might work okay, however, if freezing is a problem then once again an escape safe gate may be the only safe option. By the way, does anyone know of any bat friendly gates that provide fail safe escape when locked?

[NZcaver]

I've seen it done both ways but locking the group inside seems to be the norm where I've been caving. I've always been a little wary of doing this, particularly somewhere remote. Just a psychology thing. If we left the gate unlocked, I guess somebody could happen by while you're inside and throw a new lock on with the best of intentions. Probably better to ensure the original lock is in good working condition before locking yourself in and hiding the key inside the entrance. You could even add an "occupied" tag if you really wanted to. The option of opening a gate from the inside without a key would be ideal, and I recall some of the Arizona cave gates being constructed this way.

[trogman]

Several of the locked caves I go in have the padlock set inside of a steel tube. This makes it nearly impossible to break into, but would also make bolt cutters or a hacksaw useless if the lock would not function properly. I believe the one at Mystery Falls is like that, as is the one at Steward Springs. IIRC the same design is used at Ulla Cave.

Trogman

[ohiocaver]

The question would be moot if cave managers installed gates with easy safety egress (per firemedic's posting). Exits from many Mammoth Cave gates are like that, too. Like others, I've been trapped in a cave due to being locked in -- in this case, the key jammed in the lock as we unlocked the second, interior gate as we entered the cave (since our callout was 15 hours away, we eventually decided to really force things despite the danger of breaking the key off in the lock...and managed to get the key out of the lock; but we were so rattled we simply exited the cave and didn't go exploring).
The theory of back-locking is, as noted, that re-locking prevents casual passers-by getting in and then being locked in as you leave. From the responses so far, it seems there is more a danger of legitimate cave visitors trapping themselves in a cave due to lock failures, etc., than stories of passers-by getting accidentally locked in. In some cases, it may be possible to dissuade passers-by by gently replacing the lock without actually snapping it shut (that won't work with all gates and isn't a 100% sure cure).
We already have a half-dozen cases here of cavers trapping themselves due to frozen locks, etc. The odds of someone following you into a cave unnoticed are slim but real. Does anyone in the SAR area have cases where passers-by were locked in?
Eventually, I hope for the day when locks will be electronic and timed for easy passage in and out with one password per visitor (see CLEVE-O-GROTTO NEWS article two years ago on same).

[Extremeophile]

The odds of someone following you into a cave unnoticed are slim but real. Does anyone in the SAR area have cases where passers-by were locked in?

While the odds of an authorized group getting trapped due to lock failure are greater than the odds of an unauthorized group entering a cave left unlocked, or dummy-locked, and then being locked-in ... the consequences for the unauthorized group are presumably much more severe, since they are unlikely to have a surface watch. When weighing the risks it's important to consider both the probability of an event and the severity of the event. Something with a low likelihood but fatal consequences probably outweighs something with a moderate likelihood and an outcome that is inconvenient.

[trogman]

The odds of someone following you into a cave unnoticed are slim but real. Does anyone in the SAR area have cases where passers-by were locked in?

While the odds of an authorized group getting trapped due to lock failure are greater than the odds of an unauthorized group entering a cave left unlocked, or dummy-locked, and then being locked-in ... the consequences for the unauthorized group are presumably much more severe, since they are unlikely to have a surface watch. When weighing the risks it's important to consider both the probability of an event and the severity of the event. Something with a low likelihood but fatal consequences probably outweighs something with a moderate likelihood and an outcome that is inconvenient.

Good points- unauthorized groups are also more likely to be "flashlight cavers;" ie, not properly equipped or dressed.

Trogman