$10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby NZcaver » Nov 8, 2013 5:07 am

Thanks for clarifying. Obviously this event is neither the time nor place for recreational carbide use involving mass exothermic reactions. It's a shame when some people break the rules and ruin the experience for others.
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby trogman » Nov 8, 2013 7:41 am

I have a question for those who might have first-hand knowledge of this incident: The reward announcement states "The car was significantly damaged and the two occupants traumatized." Further down it states "People were injured." Were any of the vehicle's occupants physically injured? Mind you, I am not making light of someone being "traumatized," but there is clearly a difference between having the #@&*% scared out of you and being physically injured. Can anyone enlighten me on this? Thanks.

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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby graveleye » Nov 8, 2013 8:59 am

I've wondered the same thing about the occupants, Stephen. I heard (I have to keep saying that I "heard" because that's all the info I have) that one of them came close to having a ruptured eardrum. I do not know how one can tell if they are "close" to having ruptured their eardrum though. I had an incident in the studio once that left me with permanent tinnitus in my right ear, and that was not even as loud as an explosion, so it's possible that they could have permanent hearing loss, nerve damage or tinnitus. Not to mention just plain shock from having it go off right under you. I would be traumatized too and have no problem admitting that.

The first thing I saw when I pulled up to registration at my very first cave in was the "NO BOMBS" sign. Then in the guidebook, it specifically says "No Bombs, if it goes boom, it's a bomb". They are NOT allowed at the cave-in. Sure some people love them, but not me. The first one I ever heard almost caused me to tear my tent down when it woke me up. Scared the livin' daylights out of me. Loud surprise noises just are not fun to me.
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby gindling » Nov 8, 2013 9:41 am

Here is the info on the fund set up by Benji. Pretty nice to see such an outpouring of support.

1) Caver Fund
By: Benjamin von Cramon (Marietta, Georgia)
benjy.vc@gmail.com



I received a nice handful emails offline offering to contribute to a
fund to raise $500 to cover this guy's deductible. And we see numerous
people stepping forward here pledging their support. It's impressive and
encouraging all around, a we thing.

My Pay Pal email is benjyvc@bellsouth.net, if I'm not mistaken from
past eBay experience, you simply need you're own Pay Pal account to
make your contribution into mine. Others can correct me if that's not
how it works.

I'll find out who the guy is and see to it he gets paid. Question, what
should I do with any extra cash? I'll obviously monitor what's coming in
and post the moment we clear the goal, but it won't be exact. The
easiest thing is to bequeath him a bit on top, which would more than
ease the pain. Perhaps, Pay Pal supports me reversing charges on those
coming in above the $500. Your thoughts.

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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby trogman » Nov 8, 2013 10:25 am

Thanks for posting that, Gindling. For anyone who doesn't know Benjy, he is a stand-up guy :wtg: and totally trustworthy to handle this fund. You can be sure any contributions you send will be go to the intended use. Thanks to everyone who helps us with this. :thanks:

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$10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby Ernie Coffman » Nov 8, 2013 1:09 pm

Kevin is right on the ball with his comments. Broken eardrums and traumatized is way beyond what comes from an incident like this. I remember when we had the TN or KY convention--I believe it was--and just getting back from a cave trip, walking past a carbide cannon that was ready to shoot little rubber bats out into the field for a money-raiser. Needless to say, my hearing went to hell in a handbasket and I wear aides now because of it. :yikes: Not traumatized, for I had enough of that action in the service, but the loss of my hearing was a major hiccup. :sad:
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby trogman » Nov 17, 2013 7:59 am

Just an update on the fund to pay for the deductible- the goal of $500 was met, with an additional $40 on top of that. Kudos to the caving community for for pitching in and making an effort to make this right. :banana_yay: Thanks, everybody!

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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby mostlytree » Dec 11, 2013 11:11 am

Iam not a caver, and I'm not in your community yes so please forgive me in advance. but this is stupid. those things are not "bombs" and I promise the terrorist task force does not care. if the can it was contained in disappeared, then you are getting close to a bomb, but popping a tin can a few feet in the air is a joke to those guys.

in my opinion there are two things that really striking out to me. about this. first there is no address of why the thing was set off. why? mallace or stupid fun ? I m going stupid fun and here is why. if these things are made and set off regularly at these parties, it may seem as if that is what you do, and that is ok! if the crowd cheers when they hear one that is a sign as a outsider that its not only a normal thing but almost expected. this is still a stupid idea but hey its your stupid idea, just own it. its not fair to change the rules all the sudden, and throw the guy who did it under the bus. as soon as someone threatens to sue. I would not want to be part of a group that does that. just something to think about.

what really scares me is the reaction to the car deal. so from reading the article the driver of the car understood what it was and made the conscious deasision to try and go around/over it???? I say over because that is how close you would have to get to even see a mark on the car. that is the worst decision in the whole story. by your definition we will call it a bomb, so driver sees a "bomb" in path. Driver. is one two things either really understands its not a bomb and makes the call, or very deliberately drove a car over what they saw as a bomb. . Now the driver knows the facts. and is dealing in real time. there is no senario that works with the traumatized story. it cannot work.
you don't get to knowingly drove over a bomb and then claim damages. for that you get a moron award. this is a huge flaw in our system, it should be delt with separately
you did something illegal, here is your penalty, you did something stupid, here is yours, you get to drive a messed up car.

I am so tired of when someone does something they should not it means that other party looses all accountability, and if they choose to do something stupid it actually pays! this makes no sense. this grooms people to start to look around for someone to blame as soon as they realize they did something stupid. there has to be a whipping boy here somewhere. driving on or around a perceived bomb is stupid.
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby Chads93GT » Dec 11, 2013 1:04 pm

Who said the driver knew it was a bomb? This damn thing went off next to my tent and sprayedy entire campsite with toxic shit and gravel. I had never seen a carbide bomb before and I still have never seem one pre exploded. In the dark this thing would have looked like a sack of trash lying in the road, not a bomb. Whoever set it off and placed it next to my buddies truck and my camp side is a [CENSORED] moron who needs the shit kicked out of them. Jails are ill of morons who do stupid things. Just because there may bit have been malice intent does not mean it wasn't a crime
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby trogman » Dec 11, 2013 1:27 pm

I don't believe anyone in this discussion or elsewhere has suggested that this was intended to be anything except harmless fun.

I am concerned with the idea that some folks want to blame the victim. Yes, sometimes people can act stupidly and cause themselves to become victims. But unless and until there is concrete evidence that he did so, it is best to give him the benefit of a doubt.The focus should be on the perp, the one who set the bomb. This was a clear violation of the event rules, which were made known to all.

I wonder if there has been any progress in this case. It seems someone would have come forward by now with such an enticing reward.

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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby graveleye » Dec 11, 2013 1:32 pm

mostlytree wrote:Iam not a caver, and I'm not in your community yes so please forgive me in advance. but this is stupid. those things are not "bombs" and I promise the terrorist task force does not care. if the can it was contained in disappeared, then you are getting close to a bomb, but popping a tin can a few feet in the air is a joke to those guys.

in my opinion there are two things that really striking out to me. about this. first there is no address of why the thing was set off. why? mallace or stupid fun ? I m going stupid fun and here is why. if these things are made and set off regularly at these parties, it may seem as if that is what you do, and that is ok! if the crowd cheers when they hear one that is a sign as a outsider that its not only a normal thing but almost expected. this is still a stupid idea but hey its your stupid idea, just own it. its not fair to change the rules all the sudden, and throw the guy who did it under the bus. as soon as someone threatens to sue. I would not want to be part of a group that does that. just something to think about.

what really scares me is the reaction to the car deal. so from reading the article the driver of the car understood what it was and made the conscious deasision to try and go around/over it???? I say over because that is how close you would have to get to even see a mark on the car. that is the worst decision in the whole story. by your definition we will call it a bomb, so driver sees a "bomb" in path. Driver. is one two things either really understands its not a bomb and makes the call, or very deliberately drove a car over what they saw as a bomb. . Now the driver knows the facts. and is dealing in real time. there is no senario that works with the traumatized story. it cannot work.
you don't get to knowingly drove over a bomb and then claim damages. for that you get a moron award. this is a huge flaw in our system, it should be delt with separately
you did something illegal, here is your penalty, you did something stupid, here is yours, you get to drive a messed up car.

I am so tired of when someone does something they should not it means that other party looses all accountability, and if they choose to do something stupid it actually pays! this makes no sense. this grooms people to start to look around for someone to blame as soon as they realize they did something stupid. there has to be a whipping boy here somewhere. driving on or around a perceived bomb is stupid.


Respectfully, you just took a whole lot of time typing this only to show you have no clue what you are talking about.
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby GroundquestMSA » Dec 11, 2013 2:22 pm

Chads93GT wrote:Just because there may not have been malice intent does not mean it wasn't a crime


That's true, but intent should be a factor in determining punishment. Carbide explosions, like all sorts of other explosions, can be great fun. A thread in the registered section deals with "carbide pyrotechnics" and reveals that many cavers have indulged in various recreational detonations. Can such things go too far? Sure. Does a person who wants to have fun (in a traditionally established and widely celebrated manner) but uses poor judgement deserve violent punishment? Despite the Great Big Booms, flying gravel, injured trucks, ringing ears, emotional trauma, disturbed sleep, and widespread toxic contamination, the answer is no.
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$10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby Ernie Coffman » Dec 11, 2013 6:48 pm

To mostlytree and GroundquestMSA, if this all for fun and games, like my former brother-in-law used to do with nitro. Yep! In the olden days when loading nitro onto the rail cars, they would snap tiny pieces of it with their fingernails, etc. Eventually, one chunk exploded in his hand and he lost a couple of fingers, so..."that's no bomb" right? A stick of nitro isn't a bomb, either...until you throw it at something like a car, so then it becomes a bomb. Are we arguing over symantics...or what? :argue:
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby GroundquestMSA » Dec 11, 2013 7:02 pm

Ernie Coffman wrote:To mostlytree and GroundquestMSA, if this all for fun and games, like my former brother-in-law used to do with nitro. Yep! In the olden days when loading nitro onto the rail cars, they would snap tiny pieces of it with their fingernails, etc. Eventually, one chunk exploded in his hand and he lost a couple of fingers, so..."that's no bomb" right? A stick of nitro isn't a bomb, either...until you throw it at something like a car, so then it becomes a bomb. Are we arguing over symantics...or what? :argue:


Eh? Sure, a carbide explosive is a bomb. I never argued otherwise. Look at the definition of bomb. My point is that carbide explosions have long been, rightly or wrongly, an amusement to cavers and others who had a supply of carbide lying about. Now though, we have people saying things like this:
Chads93GT wrote:Whoever set it off and placed it next to my buddies truck and my camp side is a [CENSORED] moron who needs the shit kicked out of them.

Does this sound like an appropriate reaction to you?
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Re: $10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

Postby Chads93GT » Dec 11, 2013 7:40 pm

Yeah. Actually it does. I've seen plenty of people get their bells rung becUse they did something utterly stupid. Would you rather them be arrested and thrown in jail? I'd rather them have an ass kickin to teach them not to do things that could cause great bodily harm. If I would have walked up to it, because it was 50' from my tent, wondering what it was, as I had no idea that trash bags were bombs, I would be missing an arm or legs or dead right now. That explosion was so ridiculously powerful. If my friends truck wouldn't have been where it was the gravel would have been thrown all over my tent.


I guess you had to be there. ;)
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