$10,000 REWARD RELATING TO CARBIDE BOMB

[Ernie Coffman]

I, wholeartedly agree with Chads93GT, so we'll probably never convince you, GroundquestMSA, but that's how it goes. As for the definition of a bomb, as you threw out, here's a link to take you to one source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bomb And, take a looksee on my previous message, back in November. You state that

"My point is that carbide explosions have long been, rightly or wrongly, an amusement to cavers and others who had a supply of carbide lying about,

" so what? Does that mean that it's AOK to cause damage to someone or to something? Or is it just the noise that amuses you? Carbide used to be used pretty appropriately, when we were using carbide lamps, but as they phased out and the cannon idea came about--this doesn't imply that carbide cannons came about because of the loss of carbide lamps--times have changed. So be it! Just don't cause damage to others or to other's something, i.e., cars, tents, etc. Be responsible in other words! Good gosh, that might start a whole 'nother discussion.

[Chads93GT]

Personally I love things that go boom. Who doesn't? Every time a carbide bomb goes off at tag I whoop and holler. However. I would never. NEVER! Set something like this in the middle of the road. People walk past our camp at all hours of the night die to the ports potties nearby. I am not kidding when I say someone could have been killed. It was that powerful.

[GroundquestMSA]

You state that
"My point is that carbide explosions have long been, rightly or wrongly, an amusement to cavers and others who had a supply of carbide lying about," so what? Does that mean that it's AOK to cause damage to someone or to something?

No!
The point is that people like to blow things up, they like to make loud noises. They do it with all manner of materials, including carbide, and have for a long time. My grandfather worked in a Colorado molybdenum mine in the 60's where carbide blasts were a common diversion. Whoever was responsible for the blast we're bickering about obviously did the wrong thing, but unless we know otherwise it seems reasonable to conclude that the guy meant no harm. So lets pound him! I may be completely in the wrong, but it seems to me that physical violence in such a case would only serve to ease the frustrations of you, the "victims". No lessons would be learned, and no one would benefit.

[NZcaver]

The problem, as I see it, is a lack of suitable mentors these days who are willing to advise people how to build and initiate these kinds of devices safely and responsibly. That, and some people's distinct lack of general common sense for what is appropriate behavior at a given place and time. What is the world coming to?

[Chads93GT]

You state that
"My point is that carbide explosions have long been, rightly or wrongly, an amusement to cavers and others who had a supply of carbide lying about," so what? Does that mean that it's AOK to cause damage to someone or to something?

No!
The point is that people like to blow things up, they like to make loud noises. They do it with all manner of materials, including carbide, and have for a long time. My grandfather worked in a Colorado molybdenum mine in the 60's where carbide blasts were a common diversion. Whoever was responsible for the blast we're bickering about obviously did the wrong thing, but unless we know otherwise it seems reasonable to conclude that the guy meant no harm. So lets pound him! I may be completely in the wrong, but it seems to me that physical violence in such a case would only serve to ease the frustrations of you, the "victims". No lessons would be learned, and no one would benefit.

You assume no harm was meant. I don't see how someone can set up a bomb so close to where someone is sleeping, and not have a willful disregard for the safety of others. Get it?????

[Chads93GT]

I may be completely in the wrong, but it seems to me that physical violence in such a case would only serve to ease the frustrations of you, the "victims". No lessons would be learned, and no one would benefit.

But I digress. I think the perp's should be in jail for a long time to think about their stupid actions. Just like someone who gets a DUI after crashing into another vehicle, but no one is hurt. AFterall, they's just playin. They's just havin fun! but even they's goin to jail ;)

[GroundquestMSA]

But I digress. I think the perp's should be in jail for a long time to think about their stupid actions. Just like someone who gets a DUI after crashing into another vehicle, but no one is hurt. AFterall, they's just playin. They's just havin fun! but even they's goin to jail ;)

I agree that a penalty of some sort is appropriate. Comparing drunk drivers (who have killed many people) to carbide bombers (who have killed none, as far as I can tell) isn't exactly fair, but if you say that this bomb was extremely dangerous I'll believe you. I agree with NZ that our society is stricken with a great shortage of common sense.

[trogman]

I may be completely in the wrong, but it seems to me that physical violence in such a case would only serve to ease the frustrations of you, the "victims". No lessons would be learned, and no one would benefit.

But I digress. I think the perp's should be in jail for a long time to think about their stupid actions. Just like someone who gets a DUI after crashing into another vehicle, but no one is hurt. AFterall, they's just playin. They's just havin fun! but even they's goin to jail ;)

Agree 100%. Funny you should bring up alcohol- I suspect it was likely a factor in the perps poor judgement in where he or she set the bomb. Alcohol has a way of impairing people's reasoning skills like that. But that's opening up a whole other can of worms, isn't it?

Also I am confused as to how going to jail is considered "physical violence." It would be punishment for committing a stupid and irresponsible act, according to the laws put in place by our society and government. I see nothing violent about that. If we flogged them in the town square, now that would be a different story...

Trogman

[LukeM]

If we flogged them in the town square, now that would be a different story...

Trogman

I think that came up because public flogging was exactly what Chad had championed.

[Chads93GT]

yes, lets flog them ;)

[wyandottecaver]

Im sure those involved just wanted to have some fun. Certainly it was a common type of fun at caving events. however... 1) they were stupid in execution of their fun. Stupidity carries consequences. 2) It was WELL known that carbide explosions were explicitly not permitted. If you want to be a rebel, just remember that sometimes the rebel gets the girl and sometimes he gets shot. 3) If you can't respect your peers and follow property rules you probably wont respect landowners either and are a danger to the sport and our access to caves and need to be stopped by whatever means is necessary.

I love carbide explosions in proper settings and with the agreement of those in the vicinity. In several cases of late night random events by inconsiderate pranksters I would gladly have sent someone to jail AND flogging if they were identified.

[caverdan]

Just a thought.......if they offer a big reward before the event instead of after the fact......maybe they can both defer this type of behavior or at least get more people involved in finding out who is behind it......right after it happens.

I take it the bombs are made from a plastic soda bottle and are of the concussion type.....not incinerary.

[Chads93GT]

This one was a trash bag actually. and it has to be ignited. its a gas explosion. Not a pressure explosion.

[caverdan]

This one was a trash bag actually. and it has to be ignited. its a gas explosion. Not a pressure explosion.

I pictured it like a dry ice bomb where the pressure would build up and expand the bottle......but the more I think about it.......I'm betting carbide and water reaction won't build the same kind of pressure as dry ice and water.

Do I dare ask how one ignites it? Fuse? Electric match?

[Chads93GT]

It was lit with a fuse, based on the evidence at the "impact crater". Buddy lane was walking past our site in the orning and I pointed it out to him because I had no idea what I was looking at. He said "Carbide bomb", found the neck of the trash bag, duct taped shut and said a fuse would have been stuck in it to ignite the acetylene gas