Pennsylvania vs WV and other states caves size

[rickster]

Hello cavechat, its been a while. I livein cave in central Pennsylvania. I keep hearing more experienced cavers who frequently travel to west virginia and other states say if you can cave in Pennsylvania , you can cave anywhere! They say our caves are generally much tight nasty crawls etc etc.. while caves in other states feel like open air. They just joshin' or is this generally how it is.?

[Scott McCrea]

I have noticed over the years that everyone's caves are the hardest in the world. It's more a matter of how hard you want to cave.

[Bumbalawski]

WV caves are more appealing than Pennsylvania caves. Larger passage and plenty of opportunity for the "on rope" experience lures many to WV. The WV caves also offer the opportunity for "down and dirty" caving. I prefer to "stay near home" where caving is more challenging. Pennsylvania caves are challenging but "extreme" on rope experiences are not that many in Pennsylvania. I can say one thing for sure, if you like mud, Pennsylvania caves are the place to be. Maryland also has its fair share of mud.

Donnie Carns
Beans Cove Pa

[MUD]

Lol @ Rick! Poor guy, somebody help him!

[JSDunham]

I suggest you come cave in the Berkshires, where a "room" is a place you can turn around and "going cave" is a 12" crack floored with porky guano. We have hundreds of caves up here, and there are even about 2 dozen that reach triple-digit lengths. In a few places you enjoy the freeing feeling of being upright and the ability to turn your head from side to side--this is what you may have heard about as "borehole."

When you go back to PA, it will feel like WVa by comparison.

[Stridergdm]

I suggest you come cave in the Berkshires, where a "room" is a place you can turn around and "going cave" is a 12" crack floored with porky guano. We have hundreds of caves up here, and there are even about 2 dozen that reach triple-digit lengths. In a few places you enjoy the freeing feeling of being upright and the ability to turn your head from side to side--this is what you may have heard about as "borehole."

When you go back to PA, it will feel like WVa by comparison.

Yes, but the advantage of New England caves is you can fit a 1'=1' scale cave map in your pack.

And if someone asks you "does it go?" You can say "yes... as far as my arm!"

[PYoungbaer]

True story: I was an our spring NRO in NY and chatting with some cavers who were describing a recent trip to West Virginia:

"Yeah, the cave passage was huge - I only had to bend over once the entire trip."

I replied, "Yeah, me too. I just did a Vermont cave and the same was true - I only had to bend over once - to enter the cave. Next time I stood up was when I exited."

[JSDunham]

Yes, but the advantage of New England caves is you can fit a 1'=1' scale cave map in your pack.

At Convention last year there was a 3-D panorama exhibit of a well-decorated cave chamber. We thought "heck, we could do the whole cave here!" We weren't even kidding.

[GroundquestMSA]

Every cave state has its share of nasty muddy awful crawls. If you're in WV, though, you aren't forced to shove yourself through them. There are other options.

Since everyone's bragging on the misery of their caves, I must say that Ohio's #2 and #3 caves by length total 4616' (until we get a drought and enough wetsuit to shimmy back into #3 and make it #2 (only 31' to go)) About 200' is walking, 400' is stooping 2000' is crawling 2000' is bellycrawling, and 16' is breathing through one nostril. If Ohio Caverns, the longest in the state, had not been heavily excavated, the nastiness-per-foot, would be much more impressive.

[JSDunham]

MA's longest cave is 1605ft--its a swamp maze in which you never stand up. The next longest cave is only half that length.

Any NJ people paying attention to this thread? I've seen your caves, and I think you could win this game of one-downmanship.

[MUD]

What Rick failed to mention is that there are several multi-mile cave systems in central PA. They're all gated. In fact, most every nice cave of any size in central PA. is gated. I cave there as a project caver and I'm not always crawling that's for sure! But I have the keys to a few of those caves that you don't crawl in much!

[caver.adam]

"Our caves are tighter than yours, and are stalagmites are longer and thicker than yours too!"

[PYoungbaer]

Mud - will you be doorkeeping any of those at Convention this summer?

[MUD]

I'm always the 'doorkeeper' there as you call it. I will not be attending convention but will be in central PA. preparing for 3 combined caving events. The Cave Hill Grotto's MUDfest, an unofficial NSS post convention camp and my wedding...in a cave no less!

[hewhocaves]

MA's longest cave is 1605ft--its a swamp maze in which you never stand up. The next longest cave is only half that length.

Any NJ people paying attention to this thread? I've seen your caves, and I think you could win this game of one-downmanship.

I am...

Jersey's longest cave is slightly less than 1000'. It used to be about 1300' but part of it got mined away during a body recovery. The next two longest caves are quite nice at about 800' long. One is just a long passage with a decent sized room in the back and some formations. The other is a fun three-dimensional maze with a 40' dome in the back.

After that the pickings get kinda meager. There's something like 2 dozen caves longer than 100' and a whole bunch more shorter than that. However, there remain a few places in the state where we have the potential for a half mile cave or longer. One surface stream sinks at the top of a ridge and then reappears about a half mile away and ~150' lower. The resurgence is all cobble (and on Federal land). The insurgence is enterable but ends in breakdown after about 150'. There's another set of sinking streams off a ridgetop which probably drop a hundred feet or so - though I do not know where the resurgence actually is (it may be under a lake).

There's also precedence for finding longer caves - just over the border in NY state is a cave that's 1.5 miles long and another thats about a half mile long. Its the same rock that goes through Jersey, so it's possible. However, its difficult to get people to ridgewalk and do the landowner things necessary to find these caves. I gave up after about 10 years and moved to WV.

Connecticut and Delaware are still far worse than NJ in terms of length. So is Louisiana.