A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby BrianC » Feb 15, 2013 12:21 pm

eyecave wrote:knowledge is never a bad thing.....the more you know the more confused you can become....google for information..although i have found answers to questions, not by the information sites specifically; but by them corporately!....thats amazing to me..

judgement based on knowledge is never a bad thing.......i believe that increasing your knowledge will lead to judgement's that cause a better result....a genuine abacus can't be improved....if you were using the term figuratively i think it requires the knowledge you have now to work like you feel it does and increasing that could only make it work at a more sophisticated level...

as a suggestion google "complex search".....read or reread and refine your search technique.....everything known is somewhere on the internet...has it occurred to you that maybe your search technique is the problem!.......google wns origin.....wns world-wide or North America distribution.......wns europe.....wns cure....wns north america predictions.....

...i never said that closing caves was an option.....what i said was that during the wns epidemic cavers should avoid going into caves with a significant population of hibernating bats......


I have continually updated my files since day one of the WNS findings. What I can positively identify , is that the most factual conclusions to date are greedy agencies wanting portions of the monetary pie. The agencies use scapegoats such as cavers ( bad cavers) to justify their approach in acquiring the ingredients necessary to bake the pie. Natural selection and environmental awareness are not even a conceivable notion to these peoples, as that does not create the need for pie filling. I spend much of my time out in natural environments enjoying what most environmentalists would prefer no human would step. I say this because the pie can't be enjoyed by the environmentalists without creating the demand for the pie. The knife needed to cut the pie is those who hold the ingredients for the pie. the ingredients would not be available if the pie wasn't in demand. You probably cannot find this on the internet, because pure knowledge can't be taught, it is only available through true reality. Take this and smoke it, then contemplate what you actually know.
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby ggaliens » Feb 15, 2013 12:27 pm

"everything known is somewhere on the internet."

Dog gone ... that new passage we just found even before we reached the surface after a long trip ... that passage is already on the internet. Who would have thought ?

Dude ... get some focus. Concentrate on one thing at a time.
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby gindling » Feb 15, 2013 1:05 pm

Mmmmm...Pie...
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby Squirrel Girl » Feb 15, 2013 1:21 pm

gindling wrote:Mmmmm...Pie...


Mmmmmmm! Pie!
Barbara Anne am Ende

"Weird people are my people."
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby eyecave » Feb 15, 2013 9:53 pm

ggaliens wrote:"everything known is somewhere on the internet."

Dog gone ... that new passage we just found even before we reached the surface after a long trip ... that passage is already on the internet. Who would have thought ?

Dude ... get some focus. Concentrate on one thing at a time.


everything known......new passage just found.......known to less than .000000000001 percent.....how is that for focus?.....one thing at a time is boring to some and confusing to others.....do you think cavers are secretive?.....
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby eyecave » Feb 15, 2013 10:21 pm

available if the pie wasn't in demand. You probably cannot find this on the internet, because pure knowledge can't be taught, it is only available through true reality. Take this and smoke it, then contemplate what you actually know.[/quote]

wow.......i understand.....sorry it goes that deep into the bureaucracy .....sorry.. :sadbanana: ..but did i suspect it or think it would surely develop.....certainly.....i am very proud to claim two things.....i have won a jury trial for practicing medicine without a liscense and that i was targeted by some of my political cohorts because i was ultimately a failure as a politician.....

...humans are all stupid.....smart people are stupid......does that explain anything?... :down: ....................

the vast majority of human behavior is based on selfish motivations.....individually and corporately we are so selfish in our actions that we are not even aware of it.... :doh: ..it is our nature and is not a choice......as a rule all of our actions are based on selfishness if we have a choice.......childrearing and work create exceptions of course......i am talking about our preferred stuff......does that explain the other?.....

so, from the individual practioner to his representatives the majority of actions will result in motives grounded in selfishness......hamburger resulting from is the result, from one level to the next...reasonable acceptable idiocy compounding...... :sadbanana: ..sad......

how can this be fixed?... :shhh: ....i would suggest.....as a group we could out vote the bureaucracy......oh, i agree with acquiring true pure knowledge....but even that can be wrong or better, right?.........so if that is true, could it ever be achieved?..i would have asked, should it ever be achieved?.... :sadbanana: ....
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby eyecave » Feb 15, 2013 10:40 pm

gindling wrote:Mmmmm...Pie...



re: mmmmm pie....pies are always a great treat and a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate old technology in their realization.... :banana_yay: ......ie......pie filling comprised of canned fruits and berries about three months old and using whole grain flour of the crudest grade usable creating crusts and pie bottoms and pie sides..... :tonguecheek: ...and then the prolonged anticipatory joy of baking it submerged in a cast iron container surrounded by coals and fiery embers...all under a starry night sky....... :bananabat: ....
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby BrianC » Feb 16, 2013 10:02 am

When A Pie is received, Do You eat as much as can fill your appetite, or do you share your new pie, or do you give your whole pie to those whom haven't had any pie for some time? Why? I'm not talking about German Chocolate, That doesn't count? :shrug: Also does anyone refuse pie?
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby eyecave » Feb 16, 2013 8:27 pm

BrianC wrote:When A Pie is received, Do You eat as much as can fill your appetite, or do you share your new pie, or do you give your whole pie to those whom haven't had any pie for some time? Why? I'm not talking about German Chocolate, That doesn't count? :shrug: Also does anyone refuse pie?


first question....no,second question...it depends on who knows i have a pie.......third....well i doubt if i would care about those who don't know......subject of discussion?...i thought we were discussing wns and its sequelae.......and diabetics will refuse pie on occassion......you have forgotten my lecture points on selfishness....otherwise..it rules.....
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby BrianC » Feb 17, 2013 9:55 am

eyecave wrote:
BrianC wrote:When A Pie is received, Do You eat as much as can fill your appetite, or do you share your new pie, or do you give your whole pie to those whom haven't had any pie for some time? Why? I'm not talking about German Chocolate, That doesn't count? :shrug: Also does anyone refuse pie?


first question....no,second question...it depends on who knows i have a pie.......third....well i doubt if i would care about those who don't know......subject of discussion?...i thought we were discussing wns and its sequelae.......and diabetics will refuse pie on occassion......you have forgotten my lecture points on selfishness....otherwise..it rules.....


Using " CAVING philosophy FORUM........" as the reason for this discussion, and "Pie" = MONEY+ reason for someone to cave or not to cave, I don't think I have forgotten anything here. But I do wander and I do wonder.
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby Carl Amundson » Feb 17, 2013 11:51 am

I cave, therefore I am!
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby submassabielle » Feb 17, 2013 2:43 pm

I disagree with Descartes. I am and the cave is, therefore I can cave.
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby submassabielle » Feb 17, 2013 2:55 pm

Sum et speluncae sunt, ergo explorare speluncas possum.
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby eyecave » Feb 17, 2013 6:52 pm

the cave experience exists only because of me....therefore i am the cave....the cave was before me and it will be after me.......therefore i am also only a part of the cave.......a troublesome dichotomy of nature...... twilley'13...
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Re: A CAVING Philosophy FORUM........

Postby submassabielle » Feb 17, 2013 11:57 pm

I am not the cave. The cave does not exist because of me. The cave itself exists. The cave has its own nature. My intellect, according to its own nature, functions in a primarily passive manner. Through my senses, the reality of the cave impresses itself on my intellect. When my intellect has rightly received these impressions, it is brought into a certain conformity with the reality of the cave itself. When, and to the extent that, my intellect is in conformity with the cave, I can be said to know the cave. Thus while my nature makes it possible for me to experience the cave, it is, in fact, the cave which causes the cave experience. I am not the cave, since the cave's nature is not at all dependent on my subjective experience. This is clear from the fact that I can be wrong about the cave. If I perceive a few characteristics of the bedrock, for example that it is has been able to dissolve by means of groundwater and it looks grey, I might judge that it is limestone. If, based on this experience, I judge that it is limestone, when, in fact, it is dolomite, I am WRONG. My intellect is not in conformity with the objective reality of the cave. I then need to return to the cave to allow the cave further to impress itself upon my senses and, through them, upon my intellect. I might, in order to better experience the cave, test how readily the bedrock reacts to diluted HCL. In doing this, I might recognize my error, realizing that what I thought was limestone is really dolomite. Then my mind will be in conformity with the objective reality of the cave, and to that extent, I will really know the cave. Furthermore I am not the cave because even when I know the cave, it is as an independent subject who recognizes that the reality which is impressing itself upon my intellect is the reality of a thing independent from my intellect. Most certainly I am not JUST a part of the cave. Since if the cave were to be destroyed by some cataclysmic event, I would not cease to exist. Just as the cave has its own reality, independent of my mind, I exist independently of the cave. We can know objective reality. Speleology depends on this possibility. It is because we can know many individual caves and see that they share common characteristics, that we can recognize that they are all instances of the same kind of thing i.e. caves. This is necessary for us even to talk about caves in a meaningful way. Philosophy must return to the primacy of the reality of things over the act of knowing, i.e. the primacy of metaphysics over epistemology. The problems of modern and contemporary philosophy stem from the attempt to begin by doubting everything. Descartes' "I think therefore I am" ("cogito ergo sum") is the beginning of these problems. He doubts everything but his own experience. Then he proceeds to try to know all things starting from his experience of himself thinking. Whatever his intentions, Descartes never got outside of his own head. Furthermore, I am not aware of any of his philosophical progeny (including Kant!!) who, starting with subjectivity, have ever been able to build a system which gets them outside of their own heads. Philosophy will be renewed when it begins not by doubting all of reality, but with the common sense conviction that the world around us really does exist and that we really can come to know it by using our senses, experience, and reason.
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