Crack This Nut?

[Mike Cato]

I sent a buddy some cave entrance shots. He sent the following back:

Alabama has a golf trail and a quail trail and a fishing tournament trail. Why doesn't Alabama have a cave trail? I know people guide people, for profit, to hunt and fish, why not spelunk? I know there are caves that charge admission, but they are very limited in numbers. Seems like an opportunity for someone to make money guiding people in some of the thousands of other caves in the state.

I told him what I thought:

No members of the National Speleological Society, Alabama Cave Survey, or Southeastern Cave Conservancy would "cave for pay". It's part of the agreement. The ACS has all of the cave locations-- someone could get a hold of that data and basically become a rogue "cave for pay" guide. Probably wouldn't last too long. Landowners would eventually become aware and shut it down, or ask for their cut. The SCCi owns many caves in the area and members (I'm one) have access to them. Some of these are open to the general public to use. BUT, the SCCi has a "no cave for pay" policy. They'll take your one-time or monthly donation in order to buy or maintain debt on cave property but no "cave for pay".

But, I guarantee there is a small covert "cave for pay" community. There's just not a way to make a "living" at it, I'm sure.

NOW:

Anyone want to "crack this nut"? (By that I mean present an informed opinion.)

[Mike Cato]

::crickets chirping::

OK. Say someone owns a bed and breakfast, for instance, and advertises that guided outdoor activities are available (no specifics) at no additional cost. BUT, one of the attractions for the customer is the potential of doing outdoorsy things while staying at the B & B (kinda like they're included in the price).

If the owner takes the guest(s) caving, is this "caving for pay".

[Phil Winkler]

Of course, it is. But, so what? I don't see anything unethical about it. There might be legal/liability issues, but aren't there with most things? As far as I know it is completely unregulated unlike, say, boating.

To take passengers on your boat for pay you MUST have a US Coast Guard license, i.e. be a licensed Captain. It is strictly enforced, but I know of nothing like that in the guide or caving area.

And, should you want to do this (somebody was doing this a few years ago, I'm pretty sure. In Alabama) then good luck finding customers.

[Sean Ryan]

It takes a huge amount of effort to take a hobby and create a full-time job at it. Ask your local cave vendor: it ain't easy. You need to go through all the hoops and the 18-hour days of running a small business. Plus the added risk of basing a business on something aside finding the most lucrative business opportunity (if you want to solely start a business to make money, become an undertaker). Plus the possible frustration of seeing the activity you love morph into the soul-crushing inescapable obligation that people's jobs sometimes are.

Most of us, on the other hand, have probably been approached by a local scout group or oher group once a year or so that wants to go caving. It wouldn't pay the mortgage, but it would get you some DVDs. My grotto will set up a mutual donation deal with groups like this, where we'll take them caving for free and they'll unrelatedly write a check to the Northeastern Cave Conservancy. Once you accept money for services, you become legally liable for those services. (I'm sure the amateur guy with the broken leg could sue anyone he wants to go after, regardless of any money exchange, but it's still a good buffer to have gained nothing financially from it.)

[Mike Cato]

Whoa, whoa, whoooooa!!!

Just interested in your thoughts on the issue. I'm not about to ruin a fun hobby by turning it into a business.

[Buford Pruitt]

As I mentioned on another thread, our grotto is contacted one to several times weekly by scout groups in FL and southern GA looking for teaching guides. We have a bunch of helmets and several members who really like kids, so we take 'em caving in easy, gated caves. We insist on proper adult to child ratios (1:4), and we charge them for the helmets and our time. It is one of our grotto's most remunerative activities. As you know, cave gates are expensive, and scout money is a godsend.

We get another benefit from scouts. Evidently, scouts get a caving or community service merit badge (not sure which, and don't care) if they assist us in cleaning out trashed caves and sinkholes. Child labor is great stuff. You should try it.