What would you do? May have a cave on my land

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What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby outacontrol » Jun 2, 2010 10:18 pm

Got a small sinkhole (12 foot diameter) on my land, that I never paid much attention to. My kids wanted to have a campfire, so I told them to pull some brush out of the hole. My daughter came to me and said when she reached into the sinkhole, it felt really cold. I went down there, and stuck my hand below the brush, and could feel a cold breeze under the brush. It was amazing how cold the air was, and really noticable since it was 90 degrees outside. The next day, I emptied all of the brush and debris out of the sinkhole. What appeared to be the bottom of the sinkhole, was bowling ball sized stones at the floor, with very little dirt, even though the area immediately outside the hole has several feet of top soil. It appeared that any dirt in the hole was washed completely down somewhere, leaving the stones clean. Cool air was obviously coming up from around the stones, so I went to work chucking them out of the hole. I went in the direction of the air flow, and it took me to one side of the sinkhole. At that point, about 5 feet below ground level, I realized I was removing loose rock that was filling a void in the bed rock. All the cold air is coming from the void that I'm looking at. It's enough to feel like slight breeze when you're down there. Also, the limestone at the beginning of the void is really rounded, scalloped, and brittle, and very eroded looking. One interesting item I found while taking stones out of the void is a red salamander. I've never seen anything like that outside of National Geographic. I'm not going to pull any more rock out of this void at this time, because I dont' trust the dirt and rock walls above where I'm working. I'm to the point where I'm sorta going underneath instead of down.

I'm sure there's some sort of cavern here, but I'm not sure how big. How much of a cavern does it take to blow air? Not much info on this. I'd be willing to remove the earth around where I'm working to make it safe, if this is a good sign of a cavern. I'm in a karst area in the Ozarks, so caves are fairly common. Any input on this would be appreciated!
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby Kuzgun » Jun 3, 2010 3:59 am

The limestone, an air flow and a red salamander. good signs of a cave. If there is breeze between stones, i think the cavern may be about 50 meters length or depth, dunno its going vertical or horizontal. You may discover an amazing cave too but if you start digging vertically and cant see where its going, dont dig there without safety equipments to not falling into pit
"If you look long enough into the void the void begins to look back through you."
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby trogman » Jun 3, 2010 7:06 am

:drool: :drool: :kewl:

If I lived in your part of the country, I'd be more than happy to come and help you check it out! I don't, but I'm sure some Ozark area cavers will reply and offer you some help. That being said, all of what you have described sounds very promising. There is a saying among cavers: "If it blows, it goes." That doesn't always hold true, but air movement is a good sign that there is likely a good cave there. A sinkhole is also a good sign as well, in addition to the eroded-looking limestone. If or when you start digging further, it would be a good idea to secure yourself with a safety rope. Good Luck!

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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby Chads93GT » Jun 3, 2010 12:09 pm

Ozarks as in lake of the ozarks, or ozark hiking trail, or the town ozark missouri?
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby outacontrol » Jun 3, 2010 5:40 pm

Christian County, Southwest Missouri. I'll definitely try to go further, but I need to remove alot of earth from the sides of the hole, too much loose earth around the area I'm looking at.
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby wyandottecaver » Jun 3, 2010 5:46 pm

I'd say you definately have a cave. whether its a cave you can get into...... do be very careful of course digging that you don't put yourself in a bad situation.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby JR-Orion » Jun 4, 2010 12:09 pm

What would I do if I found a cave on my land? Dance around for a while, probably.

:bananabat:

Then maybe call in some local grotto members to help open the place up and make a map of it. Here's a link to find a grotto near you-

http://www.nssio.org/Find_Grotto.cfm

Although I can totally understand that you'd want to explore your cave on your own, just try to take a friend with you or at least make sure people know where you are and when you'll be back.

Good luck!
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Into the blue again / in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones / there is water underground.
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Update on the dig

Postby outacontrol » Jun 7, 2010 8:57 pm

Here's a shot to give you an idea of where this sink is.
Image

This is the spot, on one end of the sinkhole that I was concentrating on. I had stair stepped the floor down to here. I had thought any channel would have went that way, but I opened up a hole that lead back under my stair steps, and it seemed pretty significant.
Image

I went to work dismantalling the lowest stair, and found that the floor of is was made of pretty large rock, that was suspended above another floor a couple feet below. I tried to be careful taking it apart, but about halfway through, the whole floor colapsed right in front of me. From there, I could see that the lowest level of bedrock that you can see in the picture, has a horizontal void under it for the entire length (at least a foot hight), and it is void under the bedrock on the opposite side of the hole that I started on. I don't know how far back the void goes, but it's farther than I can reach my arm. Plenty of cool air too. The void has bed of loose rock. It almost looks like a dry river bed, alot of the loose rock down there is perfectly polished. Now, I have to dismantle my upper stair, because the void goes underneath it, and that leaves me way the heck down there! Do caverns start underneath bedrock like this?

(crappy picture, because the debris from the floor colapsing covers most of the void entry)
Image
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby boogercaver71 » Jun 7, 2010 9:29 pm

I live in Ozark, if you would like, I can take a look at it for you. PM me if you want and we can set something up
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby graveleye » Jun 8, 2010 3:42 pm

keep us posted... no guarantee, but it sounds promising!
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby outacontrol » Jun 8, 2010 9:42 pm

I"ve got somebody coming Thursday from the area grotto, we'll see what this thing is about. The hole is angry today, blowing like crazy. I'm guessing becasue the weather warmed back up.
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby hewhocaves » Jun 9, 2010 8:51 am

Throw some cavers at it.. that usually appeases the angry hole :big grin:

And congrats. Sounds like you're on the cusp of a nice little adventure.
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby graveleye » Jun 9, 2010 2:18 pm

I'm wondering... assuming your water pressure is strong enough, could you get out there with a hose and use it to "dig" around the rocks?
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby outacontrol » Jun 9, 2010 8:42 pm

At the bottom, and in the void under the bedrock, there is no dirt. It looks like it's all been washed out. Any dirt in the bottom is from the upper floor that collapsed. It's just a few bucketloads. If I hadn't worked tonite, I woulda cleaned it out. Hopefully we can get it done tomorrow and take a peak at this thing.
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Re: What would you do? May have a cave on my land

Postby graveleye » Jun 10, 2010 8:17 am

Oh ok... I got it. It's kind of hard to see from the pictures. I wish I wasn't way over here or I would come by to help too.
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